Searching for Irish Ancestors: Dorceys, Maddens, Ryans, Dwyers, McNultys, Hefferans

THESE NOTES WERE ORIGINALLY PREPARED IN THE MONTHS BEFORE WE VISITED IRELAND IN AUGUST 2019.

I DID NOT COME BACK TO THEM AND START REVISING IN LIGHT OF NEW INFORMATION UNTIL 27 OCTOBER 2020.

THIS REVISION BEGAN WITH THE HEFFERANS (I.E. THE PARENTS AND FAMILY OF MARY ANN HEFFERAN WHO MARRIED JAMES MCNULTY), WHICH IS THE LAST SUBSECTION OF THIS PAGE. SEE NOTES ABOUT CHOICE OF SPELLING WITH OR WITHOUT ‘N.

Rooting Out “Dorcey” Ancestors Born in Ireland (Last Updated 14.5.19). I did not come back to them and start revising in light of new information until 27 October 2020

In February-March 2019 I did a systematic search for “Dorcey” individuals and families in Ireland as a whole and selected Counties. I used the RootsIreland web site to access Birth, Baptism, Marriage and Death records from the later 1700s forward. Occasionally I supplemented this by using FindMyPast Ireland (but with much less success, likely because I did not persevere) and AskAboutIreland for access to Griffiths Valuations (and with increasing success as I persevered). Finally, using the Irish Genealogy Tool Kit I searched selectively in the contributory records produced along the way in preparing the Griffith’s Valuations.

Summary of Dorcey Results in Print Out Files

  1. “Dorcey” is not a common surname when spelt this way and as assessed by Birth/Baptismal records for the whole of Ireland. I focused on the early time periods that were of immediate interest in moving the research to Ireland after the findings in English records. In 1765-1785 there were none; 1785-1805 only 1 (Catherine Dorcey, 1799, Tipperary); and 1805-1825 none. [Attachment 1.A]
  2. “Dorsey” is also not common and even less than Dorcey. In 1755-1775 there were none; 1785-1805 4 (none seeming relevant  NSR); and in 1805-1825 15 (NSR). Relevance to my current research interest was determined by specifics of dates and parents’ names based on findings to present. [Attachment 1.B]
  3. “Darcy” is clearly the most common spelling variant. For example, in 1795-1815 there were 366 spelt “Darcy” and 474 when adding other variants such as D’Arcy, Darcey, Dorsy, Darsey, Dacy, Dorsey, Dorcey etc. Checking some of the transcriptions against the original hand written original in church records suggests they have been read faithfully with surprisingly high frequency. [Attachment 1.C]
  4. “Tipperary” is suggested by several earlier findings (e.g. birth place given in a few English Census returns) as a possible origin of “Dorcey” ancestors. Tipperary (South) in 1795-1815 had only 2 “Darcy” (and no variants), both in Baptism records for girls but NSR. Tipperary (North) had 25 Baptisms, all “Darcy” except one (i.e. Catherine Dorcey 1799, mentioned above). All 5 Catherines found in the total of 25 individuals are NSR. [Attachment 1.D].
  5. “Limerick” is also suggested. Of 26 Baptisms found in 1795-1815 in Limerick County, all were “Darcy” except for 1 “Dorsey” but all NSR. [Attachment 1.E]
  6. “Dublin” is also suggested. In Dublin (South) 4 “Darcy” but no variants were found in 1795-1815 but all NSR. In Dublin (North) 35 “Darcy” were found in 1795-1815. [Attachment 1.F]
  7. “Patrick Dorcey” (first found in Great Peter’s Street, London, when in 1927 he marries Bridget Madden) was born in 1799 based on several sources but the place in Ireland is unknown. In the whole of Ireland in 1795-1815 there were only 21 “Patrick Dorcey” (plus variants) and all NSR. If searching is done using “Pat” then the total is 28 (NB using Pat brings in all Patrick plus Pat and Patt); still NSR but note Pat 1799 of Wicklow is rendered as”Patt” by FindMyPast searches. Finally, note Pat Darcy 1808 Dublin is the only one returned when parents “James Darcy and a “Margaret something {White here}”; otherwise NSR because of being 1808 instead of 1799 AND WHITE not being the leading candidate for maiden surname of Margaret see [Attachment 1.G].
  8. “Catherine Dorcey“1805 born in Ireland only appears in the 1841 England Census and is not located again in the English Censuses. Death and various relationships are possible explanations in principle, including sister or sister in law of Patrick or any of his two identified brothers (Daniel 1801 and John 1811); all were listed as “Ireland” born according to 1841 Census {CHECK NOT ENGLAND BECAUSE OF ERRORS FOR CHILDREN FOUND ALREADY}. Checking Irish records, Catherine Darcy and variants revealed 31 possibilities in 1795-1815 for Ireland. Catharine (i.e. spelt with “a” only 2. Suggests the dominant spelling is with an “e”. [Attachment 1.H] NB I recently discovered Catherine Woods, born in St. Mary’s, Clonmel in 1803 and her father “James”;  she became the wife of Daniel Dorcey shortly before the 1838 birth of their first son, John, and in 1842 they had a second son, James (named after her father?), before she died sometime between 1842 and 1848 when Daniel marries again to Mary Morice a widow, whose maiden name was Horgan based on their Marriage Certificate, which shows her father as Michael Horgan (?living in London at the time, at daughters house CHECK?

Rooting Out “Ryan” Ancestors Born in Ireland (Last Updated 12.4.19)

The Ryan branch of the Dorcey family tree results from the 1903 marriage in Camberwell, London of Johanna Ryan (1880-1965) to Daniel Joseph Dorcey (1874-1945). Johanna was born in Haggerston, London and Daniel Joseph in Southwark, London. In Johanna’s case her parents were born in Ireland about 1840 and immigrated to London by the early 1860s. In Daniel Joseph’s case his grandfather, Patrick Dorcey, was born in Ireland before immigrating to London in the earlier 1800s.

I know that Johanna Dorcey travelled to Ireland in the years after WWII to visit her son Owen and his family in Dalkey, Dublin. To what extent she visited Ireland before her 1903 marriage and afterwards with Daniel Joseph, I do not know. However, I now believe Johanna very likely visited Ireland before her marriage and after it. I would be surprised if Johanna with her pride in Irish ancestry and Daniel Joseph with his own Irish grandparents and love of travel, did not visit Ireland between the wars (as they did Europe) and particularly after Owen their son moved there in the mid 1930s. [Note to self: Surely one of Owen’s children has a photograph from his marriage to Maura Kiersay (30 May, 1940 Dublin) that shows whether Johanna and/or Daniel Joseph were present (although this was the height of the Battle of Britain and they may not have been able to travel {also I do not see Owen in photos from my own parents’ London wedding 6 April 1940} ). Who is listed in the Irish Marriage records as being present in Dublin with Owen and Maura? {Incidentally did Owen ever become an Irish citizen?}]

When I started in 2018 to explore where our Irish ancestors had been born and lived in Ireland before immigrating to England, it was easiest to begin with Michael John Ryan (1839-?1914) and his wife, Ann(e) Dwyer (1843-?1911+) because in the 1911 Census they had, for the first time in their records, given the names of the specific places within Tipperary where they were born: “Lagganstown” and “Carnahalla“. In the beginning I did not have any other Irish ancestor’s birth location that was more specific than “Ireland” except, in a few instances, the County was stated (specifically Limerick, Tipperary, Mayo and Dublin).

Based on my earlier research I had previously summarized all that I had learned about Michael Ryan and Anne Dwyer from when they married in Moorfields, London in 1868 up until their deaths sometime shortly after 1911. Their first child William was born in London in 1864, 4 years before they married, but we presently have no knowledge of when they came over from Ireland, travelling either together or separately, to London perhaps directly or maybe stopping at places en route. Nor, at the time of writing, did I know anything of the Ryan or Dwyer families living in Ireland before and after the birth of each of them. Below I now summarize some substantial subsequent findings about their childhood in Ireland beginning with Michael John Ryan.

Summary of Ryan Results in Print Out Files

  1. Most English and Irish sources refer to him as “Michael Ryan”; “John” was not discovered to be his second name until I obtained a copy of the 1903 Marriage Certificate for his daughter,  “Johanna”,  to “Daniel Joseph Dorcey”. Based on this one indication, I proceeded on the assumption that the name of Michael’s father might well be John Ryan. At the time of this present writing I have been able to find increasing confirmation of this being likely. It has also been possible to develop an interesting set of suggestions  that identify the rest of the Ryan family and where they were living at different times BY BUILDING ON THE KNOWLEDGE THAT “MICHAEL JOHN” WAS BORN IN “LAGGANSTOWN” AND THE GROWING SUPPORT FOR BELIEVING THAT HIS FATHER WAS “JOHN RYAN”.
  2. The birth or baptism record of “Michael Ryan” was found by looking for him in the RootsIreland  data base. When the search was limited to (i) 1840+/- 1 year (based on his recorded England Census birth year/age data); (ii) fathers with the name “John Ryan”; and (iii) in Tipperary South (based on knowing his place of birth was Lagganstown), only two results were generated. Both were for the St. Mary’s Parish, Clonmel; one was for 1840 and the name of the mother was “Anastatia Shea” and the other was for 1839 and the mother was “Johanna Ryan”. The second caught my attention immediately because there are several “Johannas” in our family tree; in contrast neither “Anastatia” nor “Shea” is found anywhere in family research to date. Given these findings I decided to initially focus further searches assuming that Michael Ryan’s mother was Johanna Ryan. [Attachment 2.A]
  3. Next the marriage record for John Ryan and Johanna Ryan was found by again searching in the RootsIreland data base. Going back 20 years from Michael Ryan’s 1839 birth in Tipperary South there was only 1 instance of a “John Ryan” marrying a “Johanna Ryan” and that was in the  Newcastle and Fourmilewater Parish, which is almost adjacent to St. Mary’s Parish, Clonmel, where Michael was baptized and not far from Lagganstown. Additional information in the record confirmed that Johanna’s maiden surname was indeed “Ryan”, which clarified that the mothers name stated on his baptism record as “Johanna Ryan” was not in error (i.e. her maiden and married name was Ryan). [Attachment 2.B]
  4. I then attempted to find birth or baptism records for John Ryan and Johanna Ryan (Michael’s parents). This proved to be mission impossible because of the lack of sufficient information to differentiate possibles and the large numbers of candidates (e.g. in the period 1810-’30 there were 91 John Ryans born in Tipperary South) [later information obtained on dates and places might make more possible .e.g age, perhaps from death records].
  5. Next I used all I knew to search for any records of John and Johanna Ryan having further children after Michael in 1839; previously in researching Michael Ryan I had found no hint of brothers or sisters. However, the search of baptism records, using the accumulating information, indicated a second son, James Ryan, in 1843 and again, as his brother, Michael, it was in St. Mary’s Parish, Clonmel. When I searched further forward in time I did not find another potential candidate for 20 years, when a Johanna Ryan was born and baptized in Doon, Cappagh in 1864. For this to be Michael’s (and James’) sister it was necessary to believe two facts: (i) the family had moved to live somewhere near Doon, Cappagh; and (ii) the parents started having additional children after a twenty year hiatus, not impossible but seemingly a stretch. [Attachment 2.C]
  6. Maybe this particular 1864 record refers to another  couple named “John Ryan” and “Johanna Ryan”?  I checked this possibility out using all the information on the Johanna ’64 birth record for Doon and found two subsequent siblings for her, Sarah in ’68 and James in ’71; all their information indicated a high likelihood of the family living in Doon being a different one than our “Lagganstown” Ryans. [Attachment 2.D]
  7. I also decided to check whether there was any evidence of other John Ryan and Johanna Ryan couples having children in Tipperary South so as to be sure I did not miss any really late-in-life births by the parents of Michael ’39 and James ’43. One possibility, a Patrick Ryan, appeared in the baptism records for Thurles on 29 March 1855. This is 12 years after James ’43 and in a different parish. At this point I have not ruled him out, the family might have moved during that time. The two witnesses might help make a connection: Ed and Elizabeth Boland. [Attachment 2.E]
  8. By the time I got to 1887 I had discovered 3 additional families where the parents’ names were John Ryan and Johanna Ryan and involving a further 14 children. Two of these families were also living in the Cappagh Parish, one at Ballybrack and and the other at Gurtavalla. The third was at Limerick Junction in the Tipperary Parish. While all the other John Ryan families identified the father as being farmers/labourers, the one at Limerick Junction had a career with the railway during 1872-’80 . In two cases I was also able to get confirmation by finding the relevant parents Marriage records. Map. At the present time I do not believe that any of these families are the same as those for Michael ’39 and James ’43. However, an open question is whether they are relatives. I will return to this when I focus on the family of Ann(e) Dwyer, the wife of Michael ’39,  as she was born in the Cappagh Parish/District. [Attachment 2.F]
  9. Since we know that Michael marries Ann(e) Dwyer in England in 1867 and the story of them and their children living in London is already detailed, I decided to see if James, his brother, married and lived in Tipperary, as I had not found any evidence of him being in England with Michael and because it might help in building my understanding of their Ryan families life in Tipperary. A search using all available information for the period 1853 to 1873 (i.e. his age 10 t0 30) generated only one marriage in Tipperary South for a James Ryan fitting the dates and location of James ’43. On 1st December 1866, James married Bridget Heffernan in Emly, Tipperary. Searching for children, revealed the first to be Bridget ’67 (named after her mother) was born at the end of the following month, and 6 further children followed, all baptized in Emly, while the family lived in nearby Bartoose: John ’69 (after his paternal grandfather); Johanna ’75 (after her paternal grandmother), Mary ’77, Ellen ’81 (perhaps named after Ellen Ryan, witness for Bridget ’67 and Mary ’77?), Hanoria ’84, and Timothy ’88 (named after his paternal grandfather). (Later findings suggest rationales for the naming of Mary {maternal aunt} and Hanoria {maternal grandmother “Hanora”}). (Need to list names of witnesses for each child and check if they lived in Bartoose or Emly)  [Attachment 2.G]
  10. From the Marriage record for James and Bridget I learned that her father’s name was Timothy Heffernan. Using this information I searched for a Birth record for Bridget between 1830 and 1850 in the whole of Ireland and only found 2; both in 1843 (the same year as James birth!) and one in Cork and the other in Waterford. The latter seemed more likely because of its proximity to Tipperary and hence opportunity to meet James Ryan living in Bartoose. Looking further I found that Ballyporeen, the RC Parish of Bridget’s birth, is actually in Tipperary South and hence this seemed even more likely to be the stronger candidate of the two. The residential address (Cooladerry) was a Townland only 3kms west of Ballyporeen on Covent Road. The birth record also revealed her mother’s maiden name being Honora Guiry. Searching for additional children after Bridget in 1843, revealed Mary 1846 and Patrick 1849, each born in Ballyporeen. (In future might pursue baptism places of Timothy and Honora Heffernan and possible link to James McNulty’s wife, Mary Ann(e) Heffer(n)an) [Question: Could this be a Heffer(n)an link, one perhaps from James McNulty and Timothy Heffernan both being in military/marines?]) Included are the only death records seeming likely for Timothy (1870, Ballinure, Tipperary South) and Bridget (1873, Springfield, Waterford) in Ireland.   [Attachment 2.H] 
  11. Locations in Tipperary South, Ireland of the Ryan family members are not precisely known because of the gaps in data points, the infrequent recording of places of residence, and imprecision of parish identifications of location (the most commonly cited and sole location information). Here is a summary based on details above:
    1. John Ryan marries Johanna Ryan; Parish of Newcastle & Fourmilewater, 16 February, 1836.
    2. Michael Ryan birth; Lagganstown; St. Mary’s Parish Clonmel, 2 October, 1839. (assume parents with him)
    3. James Ryan birth; St. Mary’s Parish, Clonmel, 24 September 1843. (assume parents and Michael with him and at Lagganstown)
    4. James Ryan marries Bridget Heffernan; afterwards living in Bartoose and Parish of Emly, 1 December 1866. (Bridget was born 1843 to Timothy Heffernan and Honora Guiry in Cooladerry, Ballyporeen, after her parents marriage in Galbally and Aherlow Parish 1842)
    5. All the 7 children of James and Bridget are born in Bartoose, 1867-’88. (assume their parents live there with them all this time).
    6. Meanwhile in England, all of the 8 children of Michael John Ryan and Anne Dwyer, were born in London 1864-’82. (Married, London, 1868).
    7. Given the third and last child of the Heffernans was born in Ballyporeen in 1849, it seems the family lived there until at least 1849. The next event we know is Bridget their oldest child married James Ryan in Bartoose, Emly in 1866. (The only death records found suggest Timothy (1870, Ballinure, Tipperary South) and Honora (1873, Springfield, Waterford) died elsewhere.
    8. Finally, all the places mentioned above are close enough to make the meet-ups reasonable, particularly when it is recognized nearly all are in the South & West of Tipperary South. (Note my Diversion to James McNulty and his marriage to Mary Ann Heffer(n)an; put into McNulty file for later research.)
  12. To obtain additional information on locations and dates beyond that first found above I next reviewed the 1851 Griffiths Evaluation records and maps for Lagganstown and Bartoose focusing on the Ryans and then Cooladerry and Ballporeen focusing on the Heffernans. At the same time I examined the results of the Censuses of 1901 and 1911 to identify whether any members of the Ryan and Heffernan families and associated friends (e.g. baptism witnesses) were still living in the area.
  13. 1851 Griffiths Evaluation: Lagganstown consists of two Townlands, Upper and Lower, and they are separated by another Townland, Ballyslatteen. The English 1911 Census information on Michael John Ryan’s place of birth revealed no more than “Lagganstown” and so we do not know from it in which of the two the Ryans were living. Suspecting that any land occupation information would be in the father’s name, John Ryan, rather than either of the sons, I first searched for any John Ryans and found only 1 and that one was in Lagganstown Upper at Map Reference (MR) 15. There were no obvious entries associated with MR15 for Michael ’39 and James ’43, which confirms what would be expected given their youth before 1851. There were, however, other Ryans in both the Upper (Alexander Ryan at MR17 and a Michael Ryan at MR2 { later examine thru’ Valuation Books whether the grandfather of Michael ’39 etc}) and Lower (Edmund Ryan at MR3, Patrick Ryan at MR9, and Daniel Ryan at MR13). All the lands in Lagganstown Upper and Lower are leased from “Henry S. Keating Esq.” {to be examined later}. At the time of writing I have no evidence as to whether or not any of the other Ryans leasing lots were in any way related {to be investigated thru’ Valuation Books}. From the information about areas and values of land and buildings provided in Griffiths ’51, the “House and Garden” where  John Ryan and family were living suggests they were likely one of the poorest in either Upper or Lower Lagganstown {Further discussion to be added after additional research on record books that provided information for the summary evaluation. Notably, the location of MR15 and all higher lot numbers is not recorded on the map and reasons for this need to be investigated}. A search for other lots being leased by “a John Ryan” within the Parish of Relickmurry & Athassel, revealed 3 in addition to the one in Lagganstown Upper; one each of 3 different Townlands: Hymenstown, Athassel Abbey South, & Hoops Lot. Presently I have no information to indicate whether or not these lessees are the same as or related to those in Lagganstown {again, further research can be done}. [See Lagganstown File for all supporting papers].
  14. 1901 and 1911 Census information on Lagganstown Upper and Lower: I have so far only examined the Census information for Lagganstown Upper. The christian and surnames seem familiar from the earlier data. Careful comparisons may reveal if/when the same individuals and their children are being examined. Specifically for the Ryans, the presence of a widower, Johannah Ryan who is 98 in 1901, is a tempting candidate for the wife of John Ryan and mother of the children Michael ’39 and James ’43 BUT…Need to return later, when I have further researched the earlier records associated with Griffiths so as to be more specific and confident about the earlier community of Lagganstown Upper. From an initial glimpse of The Valuation Office Books there appears to be a crossing out of an earlier Michael Ryan for the relevant lot, MR6, with John Ryan inserted. Could it be that the grandad Michael Ryan originally leased the lot before John Ryan, his son took over? It will certainly be possible to write a description of the places in terms of buildings etc and likely prosperity including improvements over time. Until I know where on the map the Griffith’s Ryans were located it will be hard to say anything about whether anyone is on the same lot a hundred years later but MAYBE…..I have included the Census related papers with the Griffiths in the Lagganstown File.
  15. Is “Michael Ryan” the name of John Ryan’s father and the grandfather of Michael ’39 and James ’43? Just as argued that “Michael John Ryan ’39” had a father named “John Ryan”, it can also be suggested that “John Ryan” had a father named “Michael Ryan”. This led to the following attempt to test this out and identify whom he was  specifically. Knowing John Ryan was married to Johanna Ryan (maiden and married name) in the Parish of Newcastle and FourMile Water, Tipperary South in 1836, I guessed that he would have been at least 16 years old and perhaps as much as 36 or even more. A search of Birth/Baptismal records in South Tipperary for a John Ryan being born to a Michael Ryan between 1800 and 1820, revealed 5 possibilities: in 1814 (Powerstown, Catherine Casy), ’15 (St. Mary’s Clonmel, unreadable wife), ’17 (Carrick-on-Suir, Margaret Burke), ’18 (Cahir, Mary Guidry) & ’18 Carrick-on-Suir). Each seem reasonable possibilities in terms of age of John (22-18) and proximity of Parish to where John married in 1836 and Michael ’39 and James ’43 were born. To allow for John being a a little older when he married, I further checked 1780-1800. This yielded 2 additional possibilities: 1799 (St. Mary’s Clonmel, Margaret Burk) and 1784 (Carrick-on-Suir, Bridget Quinlan). Clearly both are as relevant in terms of proximity and in terms of age, at 27, the first might be but the second unlikely.  Notably two of the candidates (1815 & ‘1799) were baptized in St. Mary’s Clonmel, which is the baptism location of both Michael ’39 and James ’43! This has led me to examine these two more closely. Most unfortunately the name of the wife in 1815 is unreadable so far. I am looking for a way to determine this as it opens up avenues for further searching , in particular looking for other children they might have had. In the second case (Michael Ryan and Margaret Burk, 1799), I have done this and it has led me into a fascinating list of children almost all of which are names found among later Ryan descendants! {Note: “Burk” may be spelt as “Burke” and “Bourke”}. Unfortunately the information I have raises significant complications in interpretations including whether I am looking at only one set of Michael Ryan and Margaret Burk parents!! More research is planned. At this stage I am certainly not rejecting the hypothesis that a Michael Ryan is the grandfather and, indeed that he might be among those identified, in particular those baptized in St. Mary’s Clonmel. [See Grandad Michael Ryan Papers File].
  16. 1851 Griffiths Evaluation: This Bartoose discussion builds on the information about James ’43 and his wife, Bridget ’46, and their children in Item 9 above and the associated Attachment 2G. Bartoose is a Townland just to the west of Emly with today’s R515 running through it. Griffiths ’51 shows a “John Ryan” living on MR 6b which is leased from John O’Neill, who is shown elsewhere as leasing from Edmund O’Ryan and who seems to be the dominant land owner (although possibly a lessee from someone else). There is also a “John Ryan, Esq” who is leasing MR16 from Edmund O’Ryan and this land area is the largest being leased in Bartoose; no house or offices mentioned. I assume he is a different John Ryan from ours and need to investigate the reasons for him being dubbed an “Esq.” Finally there is a “Margaret Ryan” leasing  MR12. John Ryan (MR6b) and Margaret Ryan (12a) are each shown as living on their lot. Note there is no James Ryan. All of this is to be investigated further including why MR16 is not shown on the map. The Valuation Office Books look promising; once again, as Lagganstown there appears to be a crossing out of an earlier Michael Ryan for the relevant lot, MR6. Could it be that the grandad Michael Ryan originally leased the lot before John Ryan, his son took over? [See Bartoose Papers]
  17. 1901 and 1911 Census information on Bartoose: As in the case of the Lagganstown Censuses, there is apparently re-occurrence of familiar names. Each should be checked once I have information from The Valuation Office Books & have determined access to records that continued to be collected after 1851 Griffiths – see recent book by NLI Archivist that overviews the data base: it has been ordered. Particularly noteworthy so far is the 1901 presence of Bridget Ryan ’43, the “widow” of James Ryan ’43, and their eldest son Timothy ’88. They are living in House Number (HN) 6 (notice “Bourke” next door in HN 2 (check against Grandad Michael Ryan’s in laws). Bridget is still alive in the 1911 Census and apparently living alone. Timothy does not appear to be living in Bartoose at the time. A death record for a Bridget Ryan in 1917 seems to be her; she was living next door to Bartoose in Ballyhone Townland at the time. The death was reported by Mary Condon; in Griffiths ’51, James Condon had MR9 when John Ryan had MR6 {check Mary and Thomas Condon at Cooladerry in Griffiths}. In the 1911 Census for Bartoose, there is a Michael Ryan, whose age fits Michael John Ryan ’39; this further the thought that the family in England kept in touch BUT…a 1915 Irish death record fits with the Michael in the 1911 Irish Census BUT…Finally the death record of an “Anne Ryan” in Gurteen (50kms from Bartoose) could be the wife of Michael John Ryan ’39 but key aspects indicate not…that would be just too neat!  The deaths of Michael John and Anne after the 1911 Census in England merit more investigation in England…as does all of this. [See Bartoose Papers].

Rooting Out Bridget Ryans’ “Heffernan” Ancestors in Ireland

1851 Griffiths Evaluation: Cooladerry & Carrigavisteal. This section builds on the above summary of information about Bridget Heffernan ’43 (the wife of James Ryan ’43) and her parents (Timothy Heffernan and Honora Guiry) and siblings (Mary Heffernan ’46 & Patrick Heffernan ’49). So far birth dates and locations have not been found for the parents. Although all three children are recorded as being born in Cooladerry Townland near Ballyporeen and in Templetenny Parish, there is no Timothy or other Heffernan listed among the individuals occupying lots in Cooladerry in Griffiths. However, at least 2 of the names of individuals shown as witnesses for the baptism of the children do appear (Patrick Mahoney for Bridget ’43 and Thomas Fennell (possibly wrongly transcribed as Farrel) for Mary ’46.  After searching for possible Heffernans in the Parish of Templetenny, I found a “John Heffernan” in Carrigavisteal Townland at MR5b, which is very close to Cooladerry, only Dangland Townland separates them. None of the other names of lot occupiers are recognizable from elsewhere. My present guess is that “John Heffernan” could be the father of “Timothy Heffernan” and as such was the name on the lease for MR5b (like John Ryan was for Michael Ryan). All of this can again be explored further when I get access to the Valuation Office Books.[See Heffernan Ancestor’s Papers]

1901 and 1911 Census information on Cooladerry & Carrigavisteal. There is no sign of a Heffernan in either place in either 1901 or 1911. But there continue to be members of the families who were witnesses, at least as indicated by names, to the same 2 children of James ’43 and Bridget ’43. This will be worth examining again after reviewing the Valuation Office Books.[See Heffernan Ancestor’s Papers]

Rooting Out “Dwyer” Ancestors Born in Ireland (Last Updated 24.4.19)

Having explored the “Ryan” family ancestors born in Ireland, I turned to do the same for the “Dwyers” who became a branch of the Dorcey family tree as a result of Michael John Ryan marrying Ann(e) Dwyer in Moorfields, London in 1867. Just as the English Census of 1911 gave me “Lagganstown“, Tipperary as the birth place of Michael John Ryan, it also told me that Ann(e) Dwyer was born in “Carnahalla“, Tipperary. Below I outline what I have learned about the lives of the Dwyer family in Ireland before they immigrated to England. (Additional introductory material is provided above along with that of the Ryans.)

Summary of Dwyer Results in Print Out Files

  1. “Carnahalla” is an area within the “Cahernahallia Townland” of Tipperary South. On its western edge the Townland defines the border between the County of Tipperary and County of Limerick; this sometimes leads to confusing references in records (e.g. it helps explain why in a few documents Ann(e) Dwyer is indicated as being born in Limerick rather than Tipperary, which is the correct location in terms of her claim to a “Carnahalla” birthplace). Correspondence in 1880 from the “tenantry of Carnahalla (Cahernahallia)” to Viscount Lismore, the landowner, refers to the “Doon/Cappawhite border area between Co. Tipperary and Co. Limerick”. (Note: The correspondence from the tenants includes the signature of the Parish Priest, whose parish was “Kilcommin and Hollyford, Co. Tipperary”.) [See the file on Carnahalla/Cahernahallia/Cappagh White.]
  2. From the wedding record for Michael John Ryan and Ann(e) Dwyer in 1868 at St. Mary’s Chapel, Moorfields, in the City of London, I had previously learned her father was “Anthony Dwyer“, born in Tipperary (according to the English 1871 Census, completed when he was then living nearby Ann(e), Michael and their family). Using this and information I had on the approximate year of Ann(e)’s birth, I searched Irish records for her birth/baptism record. Between 1841 and 1847 there were only 2 “Ann(e) Dwyers” born in Tipperary South with a father named “Anthony Dwyer”, one in 1843 and the other in 1845. A check for the whole of Ireland revealed they were the only two “Anne Dwyers” born in the whole country during the relevant time, not only with a father “Anthony Dwyer” but also a mother “Honora Ryan”, all of which gives confidence in focusing on the particular two records. Further encouragement came from the two of them lying in the middle of the range of ages found among the various lifetime documents for Ann(e). And, in each of the two baptism records the mother was “Honora Ryan”! And both were in Tipperary. In 1843, the baptism took place on 10 September, in the Drom and Inch Parish, Diocese of Cashel and Emly ( it also gave their residence as “P. Hill”, a location not yet identified). In 1845, the baptism took place in the Thurles Parish of the Diocese of Cashel and Emly. The records are clearly for two different places of baptism and each had different witnesses; in 1843 they were John Butter (or Butler) and Margaret Corcoran, and in 1845, Bridget Healy. Each baptism was located close enough to have resulted from a birth in Carnahalla to be likely possibilities. The only explanation I have come up with so far, that explains them being for the same parents is that Ann(e) ’43 died shortly after birth and so the next girl, born in 1845, was named “Ann(e)”.  But to date I have not found a death record to support this. It seems to me the odds against there being two different set of identical names of parents and child are quite high but certainly not impossible. Perhaps they conducted the baptism ceremony twice for different sets of relatives and friends in each locale! This puzzle obviously needs more thought! [see Attachment 3.A]
  3. By drawing 0n the numerous sources of information about ages of Michael John and Ann(e), an argument can be developed for firming up the judgement as to their most likely dates of birth.{Note Ann and Anne is variously spelt in records with and without an “e” and I have found no basis for settling which is “correct: hence my use of Ann(e)}The large variations that each individual’s set of records exhibits over more than half a century with regard to their implied year of birth is not surprising for three reasons: (i) When asked for their age, people in earlier times, often made errors because it was not a declaration they were used to making in the routines of their lives (in contrast to today); (ii) Whatever age number the respondent asked to be recorded was subject to no checking or documentation  request and all kinds of errors in the writing and subsequent transcription, as is frequently observed in the records, such as censuses; and (iii) Michael, as the head of the household, would be the more likely individual providing the census information to the person conducting the enumeration and probably not in writing because he (Michael) could not write (we know this from his “mark” on the wedding records; Ann(e) on the other hand could write). However, what is notable is that despite each of them exhibiting wide variations in their own implied birth year (Ann(e) ’42-’49 & Michael ’39-’46), the differences between the ages each gave when both made declarations were remarkably constant (i.e. Ann(e) always saw Michael as being 2 or 3 years older)! The repetition makes some sense because remembering an age difference that stays constant is relatively easy and something they would more likely bring to mind whenever asked for their ages. And the one place they would not have any say in the matter and where those involved would be much more likely to register an accurate date is at their own birth/baptism. For all these reasons and more I believe 1839 is highly reliable as the birth year of Michael and 1843 is much more likely than 1845 for Ann(e). Until I have new reasons to change, I am proceeding on these assumptions.
  4. Knowing Ann(e)’s parents were Honora Ryan and Anthony Dwyer and her own date of birth was 1843 or 1845, I could look for the date and place of the parents marriage. When searching for such between 1830 and 1850, I found only 1 wedding in Co. Tipperary AND it was the only one in Ireland (which adds to the strength of the argument for there being only one family when considering the two birth records for Ann(e)). They were married on 2 March 1840 in Kilcommon Parish, about halfway (c. 20kms) between Carnahalla and Drom and likewise Thurles. Unfortunately there was no information in the record about the parents’ parents (i.e. Anne’s grandparents). The witnesses, however, have interesting names. The first is “John Ryan“. Could this possibly be the father of Michael John Ryan? The ages would likely be about right. He could also be related to the wife, Honora Ryan (e.g. a brother). All very intriguing possibilities. It would certainly explain how Michael John Ryan came to meet Ann(e) Dwyer! Definitely merits further thought. The second is “Bryan Boland”. Interestingly an “Ed Boland” and “Elizabeth Boland” were the witnesses for a possible third son of {CHECK NAMES}John and Johanna Ryan, Michael’s parents, born in 1855 and baptized in Thurles. Earlier in relation to Attachment 2.E, I did not have much faith in this…but with this additional information? Again more thought is needed [see Attachment 3.B].
  5. The age of Anthony Dwyer given in the 1871 English Census form (the only record of age we have for him, is 65, which implies his birth was in 1806. For some unexplained reason and despite clear writing on the Census form, this was transcribed as age 55, which implies his birth was in 1816. To include both dates I looked for birth/baptism records for him in the whole of Ireland between 1800 and 1820. This resulted in only 4 records, 1 in Co. Limerick and 3 in Co. Tipperary. The birth dates ranged from 1811 to 1819. Given (i) the frequent errors in reported ages recorded in English Census data, and (ii) the relatively much higher reliability of recorded dates of birth/baptism, I am strongly inclined to assume that Anthony Dwyer’s birth date is one of those among the 4 recorded between 1811 and 1819 (this implies an age in 1871 of 60 to 52).  Each of the four records is for birth/baptism locations that seem reasonable possibilities: 2 in Thurles, 1 in Newport and the fourth at St. Michaels, Limerick City (although remember the English 1871 Census records a Tipperary birth). Each of the four has at least one additional reason for suggesting they might be relevant to our Anthony Dwyer. I am leaving further comparison of their relative merits until I know more. A couple hours after writing the previous sentence I came across a fifth possible: in 1822 in Kilcommon Parish, which is the same Tipperary location as where he married Honora Ryan in 1840 and is the reason for feeling it is possibly relevant even though the date is on the far outer limit of those likely, based on the above discussion.[see Attachment 3.C.].
  6. Nowhere, so far, have I found a date of birth or an age for Hanora Ryan/Dwyer. Guessing that her birth might lie between 1805 and 1825, given her marriage to Anthony Dwyer in 1840, I searched for birth/baptism records for “Hanora Ryan”. In all of Ireland there were 16 in this period, 5 from Limerick and 11 from Tipperary. Without further information it is difficult to identify strong candidates but, for various reasons there are at least a half dozen worth examining more. I am waiting until I have more information from new sources before spending further time on the list at this time. [see Attachment 3.D].

Presently I do not know when Ann(e) Dwyer or her father Anthony Dwyer went to England from Ireland. Based on current knowledge it could be any time from the earlier 1840s when Ann(e) was born to the birth in London of her first son, William Ryan, in 1864. In the case of her mother, Hanora, we do not know whether she ever came to England. The William Dwyer listed in the 1871 England Census as 15 years old (b. in 1856), living in 5 White Horse Court, St. Luke’s, Middlesex, with Anthony Dwyer (i.e. father of Ann(e) Dwyer and by then Ann(e) Ryan) could be his son BUT there are other possibilities. To unravel this mystery I requested a Birth Certificate that might have been for our William Dwyer; this was for a William Dwyer born in Whitechapel in 1856. Unfortunately it was not for the correct individual and I need to search further beginning with the ’51 Census, as indicated above. If found, William’s Birth Certificate should tell us the name of his mother (and maybe more, such as addresses). If his mother is our Honora Dwyer then we know (i) she came to England; and (ii) she was still alive at the time of his birth (to this point I have not been able to find a Death Record for her in either Ireland or London – too little information to eliminate many possibles).  (Note if this eventually proves out then it will likely be possible to say more about when Ann(e), his sister, came to England (e.g. she could have come over with her mother and father before 1856 when William Dwyer was born; or Anthony Dwyer could have been in London for the 1861 Census or the birth of Ann(e)’s “Billy Ryan” in 1865 or the wedding of Ann(e) and Michael John  in 1868 {and don’t forget we also do not know when Michael John Ryan came to England}). [[NEXT STEP SHOULD BE TO SEARCH FOR ANTHONY, HONORA AND ANNE IN LONDON BEGINNING WITH THE ’51 CENSUS, WHICH WOULD BE AFTER GRIFFITHS.]]

CHECK WHAT I FOUND IN TITHE BOOK RECORDS FOR HERE (AND ADD IN FOR RYAN ANALYSIS

1851 Griffiths Evaluation: Carnahalla/Cahernahallia, Tipperary. A search in Griffiths for Anthony Dwyer in Co. Tipperary produced 10 matches but none of them were for the Townland of Cahernahallia. I next tried to find the listing of Cahernahallia landowners and renters for the Townland of  Cahernahallia but was unable to find anything; for some reason the data base generates nothing. However, when I looked at the OSI map I found that there were indeed plots with  MR numbers up to 26. I therefore turned to the NAI data base of Valuation Office Books and searched for information on them. This produced “House Book” listings for each of the 26 residents recorded in 1849 and including the instance of the one tenant listed as “Michael Ryan”.{CHECK later to see if any of the other Valuation Office Books beyond the “House Books” get uploaded}. There were 6 Dwyers but none were Anthony Dwyer or any other Dwyer that I recognize by name. At MR 1 was Philip Dwyer (with Patt Hammersley and Thomas Mayer), MR 15 was John Dwyer (with Patt Ryan) and MR 20 EdwardDwyer with Lar Dwyer and Lanty Dwyer. I have no knowledge of any relationships that might exist between these 6 Dwyers {CHECK against the list of Dwyers found by tracing back the family found in the 1901 and ’11 Census for Cahernahallia after the write up below is completed} [see Attachment 3.E].

1901 Census: Cahernahallia: I only found 6 Dwyers and 5 are in one farming family. None of them had any obvious connection to the Dwyers present in the Griffith’s listing of 26 residents in 1851. The family of Dwyers consisted of James, the father, aged 60; the mother, Anne, aged 50; and three children, Edmond (21){note Edmund nor Edward}, Nora (19) and John (17). All were born in Tipperary except the mother, who listed Limerick. Only the father would have been alive at the time of Griffith’s recording in 1847 but he would have been too young to be identified individually. The Census contained no information on the plots where they resided and so they could not be related to those identified in 1847. The sixth Dwyer came from another family of Dwyers, was 17 years old and listed as a “servant” in the house of a farming family, all of whom were born in Tipperary. The mother and head of the house was the widow Catherine Hammersley (79) and with her was a daughter, also Catherine (42). The mother would have been old enough (54) to be identified in 1847 if she had been the recorded tenant but it would likely have been her husband if he was alive at the time and it could have been the Patt Hammersley mentioned above at MR 1 (or it could have been another Hammersley, Michael; NOTE by 1901 there were many Hammersleys residing in Caherhanallia according to the 1901 Census). [see Attachment 3.F].

1911 Census: Cahernahallia: There was no one listed as “Dwyer”. But the Dwyer Family of 5 was now listed as “O’Dwyer“, all of them were still listed and the 3 children as not yet married. Supplementary information recorded for the mother indicated she had been married for 32 years and all children born alive (3) were still living. Interestingly there were differences in the reported ages in 1911 than would have been expected based on what was reported in 1901, in the case of the parents in opposite directions: James (expected 70, reported 72); Anne 60, 58; Edmond 31, 31; Norah 29, 29: and John 27,28. {Below there is more discussion of what I have learned from tracing the history of this family}.[see Attachment 3.G].

1851 Griffith’s Evaluation: Lisgaugh, Village of Doon, Limerick. While no Anthony Dwyer was found to be listed in Cahernahallia Townland, a search of the entire County of Tipperary found an “Anthony Dwyer” in 9 Townlands and 2 in one of them [see above & Attachment 3E]. Some were closer to Cahernahallia than others but none were particularly nearby nor did any one individual readily evidence any connectivity to our Anthony Dwyer based on the small amount I know so far. It will be worth looking again if we learn more elsewhere [see below].

However, since Cahernahallia Townland abuts the Limerick border and the information we have on “our” Dwyers occasionally claims Limerick origins, I thought it would be worthwhile to check for Anthony Dwyer being listed in Limerick by Griffith. Only 1 individual was found in the entire County and he was listed in Lisgaugh, Village of Doon. This is located only 3kms down the road after crossing the border from Cahernahallia to Doon! Toomaline Townland (parts of Upper and Lower) is all that separates them. While Ann(e) Dwyer reported in the 1911 England Census that she was born in “Carnahalla” (Cahernahallia), the one and only time she declared this specific location, she may have been strictly accurate as to the actual place of her birth but not necessarily as to where the family rented land at the time nor where she was reported as being baptized. {Into these qualifications must also be added the declaration in her 1843 Baptism record, from the ceremony conducted in Drom and Inch Parish, Tipperary, that the family “residence” at the time was “P. Hill“, which I have not yet located on a map}.

The Griffith’s Record Information for Lisgaugh shows an “Anthony Dwyer” at MR 14a and leasing part of what he rented to an Ellen O’Brien. His lease is described as consisting of 2 houses and land. Interestingly his lease from the Earl of Clonmel[l] is the largest by area of any of those listed, 27 acres out of a total of 139 acres in Lisgaugh Townland. {Add other figures for values in comparative terms?} Two other Dwyers are listed and most interestingly one of them is an Honoria Dwyer. Could this be Anthony’s wife and Ann(e)’s mother? Honoria is at MR 3b and is leasing from the Rev. Patrick Hickey. It is described as “house and garden” but the land area and values are very small. The third Dwyer is “Catherine” at MR 2-14 {second number coding needs interpretation?}. Presently I know of no “Catherine Dwyer” in our Dwyer family except for 1 of Ann(e) Dwyers (Ryan) children born in London (1878-’80); and nothing on Michael John Ryan’s side. It appears Catherine in Lisgaugh has only a house and the values are again very small {ADD reference to later suggestion}. I am going to leave this for now with the thought that maybe Ann(e) Dwyer (1843) grew up in and around Lisgaugh Townland and Doon and that she may have lived there until she moved on to England; of course, she might have also spent some part of that time somewhere else in Ireland (including Carnahalla / Cahernahallia) but I presently have no way of knowing. The witnesses are Anne’s 1843 Baptism were John Butler and Margaret Corcoran but neither surname is listed in the Griffiths surnames. (Likewise the surname of the sole witness in the 1845 Baptism, Bridget Healy, was not present). [see Attachment 3H].

1901 & 1911 Census: Lisgaugh: There were no Dwyers (or O’Dwyers) listed in the 1901 Census of Lisgaugh or 1911 Census for Lisgough (note change in spelling). A significant number of the surnames and ages suggest the same families who were present in 1847 were still living in the Townland in each of the Census years. In 1911 Mary Fitzgerald was 91 and living with her son and his family; she would have been 27 at the time of the Valuation data collection in 1847 and based on ages in 1911, the only resident living from that generation.

***********************************************************************************************************

SIDE TRACK BEGINS

Examining Further the James and Anne Dwyer and Family Found Living in Cahernahallia in the 1901 and 1911 Irish Censuses: I was curious to see whether I could establish any connection between this James Dwyer and our Anthony Dwyer. The information provided on the family in the two Censuses made it easier to work backwards to identify where James’ family was living before Cahernahallia and other bits of  related information. If a connection could be made it would significantly enrich the telling of our Dwyer story. Go the end of the Side Track to see what it produced.

From the 1911 Irish Census we know that James and Anne had been married for 32 years by then, implying they married in 1879. A search of marriage records for the whole of Ireland produced only 2 that matched during 1878-80. Most interestingly, they are clearly for the same wedding on 8th February 1879 between James Dwyer and Anne Ryan (maiden name). One is described as being the “Civil Marriage Record” and the other as the “Church Marriage Record“. The first is listed as being in “Co. Tipperary” and the other in “Co. Limerick”. The first contains more information than the second. From the first one I learned the marriage took place in the “Parish/District of Tipperary”. At the time of the wedding James was living at “Carnahala” and Anne at “Moanafidogue” (which I understand to be the Townland of Moanaviddoge in Co. Limerick, close to the Village of Oola and Limerick/Tipperary border, and under 10kms from Cahernahallia in Tipperary. Both James and Anne are listed as “farmer”, previously “unmarried”, and he aged 35 and she 25. The witnesses were Edmond Stokes and Catherine Fitzgerald. A footnote indicates the bridegroom’s father, Edmond Dwyer, was deceased {use this info later in differentiating individuals} but the bride’s father, John Ryan, was still alive. These details provided by the Civil Marriage Record are much more than most that I have previously encountered. The lesser detail in the Church Marriage Record is more representative of what is usually available. The only information that is different in the latter is “Parish/District Solohead & Oola” AND is particularly noteworthy in that this ends up indicating the marriage took place in “Co. Limerick” as opposed to the first record indicating “Co. Tipperary”. Herein lies the critical importance of keeping clear when one is examining Civil versus Church records. I fear I have previously missed this distinction on some occasions because often both sets of records are not available to draw attention to this as here. {More on this issue below}.

In the case of their 3 children (Edmond b. 1879; Hannah/Hanoria 1881; and John 1883), there are similar patterns in the records for their Births/Baptisms. In the first two instances the individuals have both Church and Civil records, while the third only a Baptism record. All three show their “Address” as “Cahernahallia” on each of their records. Church records indicate “Parish/District: Doon, Co. Limerick” and Civil records state “Parish/District: Cappagh, Co. Tipperary.” Civil records show both “Date of Birth” and “Registration Date”; gaps between the two with both records were Edmond (Registration 8 days after Birth) and Hannah/Hanoria (4 days later). Civil records only show the name of one “Sponsor/Informant” and always the father, James Dwyer. In the case of Church records there were two people for each “Sponsor/Informant”. All of this clearly shows how differences in information can be recorded by the administrative system and unless both Church and Civil records are available, that key information may be omitted and lead to significantly different understandings, as important as being “born” in a neighbouring County. {Note the applicable UK legislation, that applied in Ireland, did not require registration of Protestant marriages before 1 April 1845 and not until 1 January 1864 for all births, marriages and deaths in the whole of Ireland, which means that the cross-check from having both sets of records is not available for our ancestors before 1864 (i.e. this does not help unfortunately in explaining specifically the two different “Church Baptism” records for Anne Dwyer: 1843 vs. 1845)}.[ see Attachment 3.I]

Using the above information I could search for more. From the 1879 Marriage record I knew James Dwyer was 35 years of age and that he was therefore born in 1844. The Baptism and Birth records revealed that only 1 James Dwyer with a father Edmund Dwyer was born in the whole of Ireland in 1844. The baptism took place in the Parish/District of Carrickbeg in Co.Tipperary (this is on the south shore of the River Suir, across from Carrick-on-Suir, and although both are just inside Co. Tipperary, residents of Carrickbeg apparently identify strongly with Waterford, another significant identification problem). His mother’s maiden name was “Catherine Laurince”, and the witnesses were Thomas Whelan and Catherine Rourke. {Since his mother’s married name would be “Catherine Dwyer” it can be asked whether she might have been the third Dwyer tenant along with Anthony and Honoria Dwyer listed in the Griffith’s 1847 records for Lisgaugh?}.

Building on this additional information, it was easy to find that James’ parents, Edmund and Catherine Dwyer,  were married in Carrick-on-sur, Tipperary/”Waterford” on 19 February 1831. As suspected his mother’s surname was spelt “Laurence”. Each gave “Greystone Street” as their address. Witnesses were James Landy and Margaret Kenna. {Unfortunately there was no information about the names and addresses of the parents of Edmund and Catherine. One brother was born before James, Edmund on 27 April 1842 and he too was born at Carrickbeg, “Co. Waterford”; witnesses: Michael Donnelly and Mary Power. [see Attachment 3.J]

SIDE TRACK ENDS

An attempt was made to go further back in time by using the above information to look for the birth/baptism record of Edmund Dwyer with the hope that this would reveal a connection with Anthony Dwyer BUT this proved to be too difficult to do in any credible way. There were just too many possibilities and too little specific information with which to eliminate some and rank others. I decided therefore to leave this path of exploration until I find new information that would encourage trying again. [see Attachment A. 3K].

***********************************************************************************************************

Anthony Dwyer BEFORE His Marriage to Honora Ryan: Before the preceding Side Track I had begun my explorations of the Dwyers in Ireland  with the 1840 marriage of Anthony Dwyer and Honora Ryan, in the Parish/District of Kilcommon. Now I inquire into what I can say about the lives of each of them before their marriage, using all I have learned to this point. 

Unfortunately the information on the Marriage Record form of Anthony and Honora does not include the names of their parents or the locations in which they were living before the ceremony. Nor was there any indication as to whether or not either had been married previously. The only possibility for finding out more was to see if the birth and/or baptism records for Anthony and Honora could be identified. Given they married in 1840 this gave some clues as to how old they might have been at the time but only a guess within a wide range.

In the case of Anthony I knew he was still alive in 1871 from the English Census. However, while his age on the form was clearly written  as 65 (implying birth in 1806), it was transcribed as 55 (implying birth in 1816). Nowhere else have I found a recording of his age that could help in resolving these differences. A search for the whole of Ireland between 1790 and 1810 revealed on only 1 baptism of an “Anthony Dwyer” and it was spelt Dwire, located in Co. Kildare and dated in 1792. There was nothing in the names or location to suggest linkage of this person to our Anthony Dwyer. Based on this and the very early birth date (implying an age of 79 in 1871), I concluded the Kildare Dwire was a very low probability. I also accepted I had to start the search at 1810 because there was no “Anthony Dwyer” in the records for all of Ireland between 1792 and 1810. This translates into assuming he was no older than 61 at the time of the 1871 Census. By the same reasoning anyone born after 1820 would be less than 51 in 1871. This seemed an outer bound based on the 1871 Census information. From a second perspective this translates into him being 20 at the time of his marriage in 1840. A lower age at marriage (e.g. down to 16) would seem possible from the point of view of how young people were when they married BUT at the other end an 1820 birth means he would only have been 51 at the time of the 1871 Census and this seemed to be going quite far beyond the information on the Census form. Therefore I finally decided I should be focusing on all candidates for our Anthony Dwyer born between 1810 and 1820 (implying they would have been between 61 and 51 in 1871 (and in 1840 when he married he would have been between 20 and 30).

This range produced 4 possible candidates from all of Ireland, 3 of whom were in Co. Tipperary and 1 in Co. Limerick. Below I suggest a ranking for them beginning with the most likely and then descending but given the unknowns in play they all seem relatively close in likelihood.

  • The most likely in my view was born in 1816 and baptized in Thurles (the same location as the second baptism record of Ann(e) Dwyer dated 1845). The father’s name was also “Anthony Dwyer”. The mother’s maiden name was “Mary Ryan” (this shows linkage to a Ryan, possibly connected to Ann(e)’s later husband, Michael John Ryan, who was born in Lagganstown, baptized in Clonmel). Further, the mother’s first name, Mary, reappears as the first name of Ann(e)  Dwyer’s third child.
  • A second was born in 1819 and again had a father named “Anthony Dwyer” and was also baptized in Thurles.  The mother was, however, different, “Bridget Burke”, two names that have not appeared so far in immediate relation to the Dwyer’s (although “Bridget” appears elsewhere on the Ryan side it is unlikely connected).
  • A third was baptized in Newport, Tipperary, in 1814, had a father “John Dwyer” (the name reappears in the fifth child of Michael John Ryan and Ann(e) Dwyer). The mother’s name is “Margaret Ryan” but the “Margaret” does not re-appear among Ann(e)’s 8 children’s names.
  • The last was born in 1811 in Limerick City (since he only ever listed himself as being born in Co. Tipperary, I list this individual last. However, his father’s name was “William Dwyer” ( this is a name that appears firstly as Anthony’s son born in 1856 in St. Luke’s Parish, London and living with his father in 1871, a few doors from his sister, Ann(e) and her own family with Michael John Ryan, which by then includes her first born, also William Dwyer, who arrived in 1864 at Oxford Street, London and before she married Michael John Ryan. From this “William” connection, the candidate should perhaps be ranked higher. Adding support is that the Mother’s name is “Mary Reddin”, which once again introduces a “Mary”, which reappears as the name of Ann(e)’s third child.

Having reached the end of this ranking of 4 based on arguing the case for not going beyond 1820 (because it would make Anthony significantly younger than the lowest data point we have from the single record (i.e. 55 in 1871), I, foolishly perhaps, took a look at the next few years and discovered two candidates that would be at least as interesting as the above 4 but for their birth date demerits! I include them below because we don’t have any reliable age record and, after all, age records are notoriously vulnerable to being given and recorded in error. 

  • In 1822 an “Anthony Dwyer” was born to a father “Anthony Dwyer” in Laghile and baptized in nearby Kilcommon, Tipperary, where we know, with relatively high confidence, our Anthony Dwyer later married “Honora Ryan” in 1840. This seems a quite significant linkage, not found with any other candidate. Detracting some is the name of the mother, “Ellen Connors” as we have no evidence of either name (e.g. none of Ann(e)’s children is named “Ellen”.
  • In 1823 an “Anthony Dwyer” was born to a father “Michael Dwyer” and baptized in the Parish of Solohead & Oola which straddles the Tipperary/Limerick border. While the father’s name of “Michael” does not appear among Anne’s 8 children (which seems remarkable given this was her husband’s name, Michael John Ryan), the mother’s name of “Ann Jones” is most significant in that it is the only time any clue arises as to where the Ann in  “Ann(e) Dwyer” might have come from.

At this point, I think it is worth keeping these 2 candidates in play so they can be re-visited along with the other 4 when and if further information makes more progress possible on the identification of Anthony Dwyer’s parents and date of birth. [see Attachment A. 3L]

Turning now to identify the possible birth/baptism candidates for the Honora Ryan who married Anthony Dwyer in 1840. I began by searching for potential candidates in Tipperary and Limerick for the same date span as Anthony Dwyer, 1810-1820, this produced a remarkable 48 possibles with candidates in each of the years. I decided I could do nothing with so many without trialing further assumptions. I next tried including the assumption that her mother’s first name was “Ann”. This reduced the possibles to just 1 in 1820; there was little in the parents’ names to suggest it might be relevant. Further checking back in time revealed not one other candidate whose mother was named “Ann” between 1800 and 1820. Looking further ahead, as I had done with Anthony Dwyer, revealed 1 in 1821  and 2 in 1824. Here is my ranking of the two that seemed to have some relevance (the second one in 1824 did not).

  • The first was born in 1821 and baptized in the parish of Solohead & Oola, which spans the Limerick / Tipperary border. This Honora Ryan had a father named “William” and a mother “Ann Rankins”. The “Rankins” name has no known relevance but “William and Ann” do clearly. 
  • The second was born in 1824 in Tipperary and baptized in the parish of Emly. Her father’s name was “Thomas” (which did not no re-occur in Ann(e) Ryans 8 children). The mother’s name was “Anne Power” (with no known relevance of the “Power” family name that I know of presently).

I then trialed William Ryan as the father and no assumption for the mother of Honora Ryan between 1805 and 1825. There were 9 possibles generated. One had been generated with the Ann assumption was run (the first choice above). A second was an interesting candidate because she was baptized in Kilcommon Parish ( where Anthony and Honora were married in 1840). Her father was “William Ryan” (which introduces the “William” name) but her mother’s name was “Ellen” ( which does not appear in any of Ann(e)’s 8 children.) In addition 2 were of interest because the mother’s names were Elizabeth and Catherine both of which are names among Ann(e)’s 8 children. [see Attachment A. 3M]

By the time I completed these exercises for both Anthony Dwyer and Honora Ryan, it became clear that too many possibilities were being identified for each of them to make it useful in progressing. What is needed is additional information. In particular it once again appears that the most powerful would be a date and/or a place for Honora’s birth/baptism. This suggests the next best step is to see if any more can be learned by looking for information on William Dwyer who was born in St. Luke’s London in 1856 and listed later in the 1871 Census as the son of Anthony Dwyer.

Rooting Out What We Know About the Hefferan (McNulty) Ancestors (Last Updated 27.10.20)

Mary Ann and James McNulty were my great great grandparents on the Dorcey side of the family. In Searching for the Dorceys’ McNulty Ancestors (1814-1866) I described what I had learned up until January 2016 about the lives of Mary Ann Hefferan and James McNulty before their marriage in the Cove of Cork, Ireland, on the 17th July 1847.  Mary Ann had been born in County Limerick in 1823 (or less likely 1816) and her father’s name was William Hefferan. James had been born in County Mayo in 1814-’15 and his father’s name was also James McNulty. In James case I did not know the name of his mother nor whether he had any siblings. Records for James indicated he was born in “Balaha” or “Ball” but no such places could be found. The strong suspicion is that it might have been Balla, County Mayo. There was no information at the time about where in Limerick Mary Ann was born nor her life before marrying James in Cork. In James’ case we know he described his trade as “blacksmith” before joining the Royal Marines in England on 2nd June 1834, when he is 20 years old. We have a great deal of detailed information about his career in the Royal Marines from his service records both before and after his marriage to Mary Ann and up until he retires and comes ashore in Chatham, Kent on 3rd July 1855.

The purpose of this web site is to summarize all that I am now able to learn additionally about their lives in Ireland before they marry in Cork,

Comment are closed.